Matt, I agree that existing government structures are failures in relation to social and biblical expectations, however, I think at times it is far too easy to fall into the trap of writing off politics as inherently evil and incapable of positive change. Though I sometimes wonder, I'm pretty sure that God has just as much sovereign control over who is elected now as he did in the OT, he most likely just has different intentions. I don't like it when politicians speak about their religious beliefs, especially Christians, cause it always seems to end up in Christians looking like idiots (ie. Stockwell Day). As Bruce said on Sunday, we have to continue to be involved if nothing else than by prayer. In reference to a previous discussion we had, the key thing is of course showing love rather than getting attached to issues and being judgemental.
i would agree with you that it is a slippery slope, however i don't think either the bottom or the top are unchristian. governments are failures, they always have been. they are and always will be an attempt to take the power away from God. to say that we will decide how we will live. you can say that the first king was ordained by God, but God did it as a way of "giving in to the people" if thats possible. nearly all governments start and end in choas. nearly all governments become corrupt or begin to abuse aspects of their power. governments are failed attepts to make our own rules in this game. and it isn't even our game.
God's sovereignty in politics is somewhat a mute point. God will use whomever and whatever He wants to do whatever He wants to. God could've been using Hitler or Stalin or Mao Dse Tung. God could be using George W to prove how destructive human pride can be. Does that mean we should lay down and accept whatever is handed to us and say "its the will of God." No, we don't know the will of God in finite degrees. We do know that God expects us to stand for certain things, and so we know somewhat how He expects us to react against certain things.
Yeah, I totally agree with you. That's the only point I was really trying to make, that we can't just sit back, have no involvement and expect God to take care of everything. You're right too about how kings and governments was the result of people being selfish and unfaithful, and wanting to be like the nations around them with visible power. Now that I think about it, both Bruce and Paul gave brief mention of politics within the last couple weeks, so now I don't remember who touched on what.
Comments
and just in time for the election...
Posted by: Lo | June 22, 2004 3:40 PM
Matt, I agree that existing government structures are failures in relation to social and biblical expectations, however, I think at times it is far too easy to fall into the trap of writing off politics as inherently evil and incapable of positive change. Though I sometimes wonder, I'm pretty sure that God has just as much sovereign control over who is elected now as he did in the OT, he most likely just has different intentions. I don't like it when politicians speak about their religious beliefs, especially Christians, cause it always seems to end up in Christians looking like idiots (ie. Stockwell Day). As Bruce said on Sunday, we have to continue to be involved if nothing else than by prayer. In reference to a previous discussion we had, the key thing is of course showing love rather than getting attached to issues and being judgemental.
Posted by: Tim | June 23, 2004 4:05 PM
i would agree with you that it is a slippery slope, however i don't think either the bottom or the top are unchristian. governments are failures, they always have been. they are and always will be an attempt to take the power away from God. to say that we will decide how we will live. you can say that the first king was ordained by God, but God did it as a way of "giving in to the people" if thats possible. nearly all governments start and end in choas. nearly all governments become corrupt or begin to abuse aspects of their power. governments are failed attepts to make our own rules in this game. and it isn't even our game.
God's sovereignty in politics is somewhat a mute point. God will use whomever and whatever He wants to do whatever He wants to. God could've been using Hitler or Stalin or Mao Dse Tung. God could be using George W to prove how destructive human pride can be. Does that mean we should lay down and accept whatever is handed to us and say "its the will of God." No, we don't know the will of God in finite degrees. We do know that God expects us to stand for certain things, and so we know somewhat how He expects us to react against certain things.
ps; was that Bruce or Paul?
Posted by: m a wiebe | June 23, 2004 8:55 PM
ps; tim that was actually aim more at the people who say "it doesn't matter who i vote for, God will pick who He wants anyway."
Posted by: m a wiebe | June 23, 2004 8:57 PM
Yeah, I totally agree with you. That's the only point I was really trying to make, that we can't just sit back, have no involvement and expect God to take care of everything. You're right too about how kings and governments was the result of people being selfish and unfaithful, and wanting to be like the nations around them with visible power. Now that I think about it, both Bruce and Paul gave brief mention of politics within the last couple weeks, so now I don't remember who touched on what.
Posted by: Tim | June 24, 2004 2:31 PM